UMS "Agram" Forum

Forum Udruge minijaturista, maketara i igrača stolnih strateških igara "Agram"
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PostPostano: uto, stu 18.11.2014 • 11:40 am 
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UMS "Agram"

Pridružen/a: ned, vel 27.02.2005 • 10:13 pm
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Evo prvog drafta, za ovo se ne glasa vec se samo daje feedback.
http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=1503484#p1503484


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PostPostano: uto, stu 18.11.2014 • 4:54 pm 
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Pridružen/a: pon, svi 26.05.2003 • 7:42 pm
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Omogućava strašne HE buildove...potpuno je legalan BotWD Lionstar sa 2 x Frosty the Snowman-om... :plonk: :zid: :sick:

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PostPostano: uto, stu 18.11.2014 • 5:00 pm 
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Pridružen/a: čet, lip 05.06.2003 • 4:32 pm
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Ajme majko kako odurno.

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PostPostano: sri, stu 19.11.2014 • 8:21 am 
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Pridružen/a: uto, svi 11.05.2004 • 8:54 pm
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Evo imaju 3 strane wooow efektai pohvala.

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7. 9. 2014. Dan za plan.


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PostPostano: sri, stu 19.11.2014 • 9:34 am 
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Pridružen/a: čet, lip 05.06.2003 • 4:32 pm
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Eltharion je napisao/la:
Omogućava strašne HE buildove...potpuno je legalan BotWD Lionstar sa 2 x Frosty the Snowman-om... :plonk: :zid: :sick:


Ako ti to nije dosta uzmi Annointeda na forstiju i Loremastera.

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PostPostano: sri, stu 19.11.2014 • 10:38 am 
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Pridružen/a: ned, vel 27.02.2005 • 10:13 pm
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Evo mojih komentara na komp. Dodajte/ odizmite i vi svoje, pa da imamo sluzbeni Cro feedback.

Well, noone answered my question,
Citat:
I'd like to ask did you guys have a certain level in mind while creating the restrictions? Or an army that was comped first, and all other armies were comped accordingly to it?

So I will do my best to guess the power level intended.

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The Lore of Hashut will have a 4 dice casting cap in effect

A bit surprised to see 4 dice cap on the whole lore. Care to share why does this lore get special attention?

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Lore of undeath

Do units crumble when the mage that summoned them dies? I know that End of Times removes crumbling but we are not using EoT.

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Scenarios

Why use the rulebook scenarios when they are not used as they should be, meaning win/ loss?
For example, blood and glory strongly promotes combat armies. Opponent cannot deploy in corners and one can move up to the 15'' mark, being closer to charge. Even if the army 'assulting' is broken from the 1st turn, they don't care, those 150pts will be compensated very easily.
Since you are using house rule scenarios, why not write some interesting (balanced) new ones? Or ask the community for ideas?
Citat:
Player A then rolls a d6

More randomness, I can't recall a single captain asking for more randomness. More or less comp is cool, randomness isn't.

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The Lore of Death and the Standard of Discipline are mutually exclusive in any army list

This hurts Beastmen the most. Was there a problem with last year's Max 2 Death lore/ team restriction or are you just trying to make a change for the sake of making a change?

Army restrictions. I guess the idea is to lessen the restrictions, to allow harder lists through.

Citat:
Beastmen

How does their Ambush work?
With marks on units the +300 pts might be too much, but if the Beastmen happen to be a top ETC army, well, they deserve it!

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Chaos Dwarves

They get harder restrictions compared to last year, which doesn't make sence if you are lowering the bar.
But why do they also get to use their Chalice of darkness for free? That item is quite bent.

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Dark Elves

Having Death lore on a lvl4 or a lvl1/2 mage is not the same and should be treated differently (certainly not 2 choices for the little mages).
Having a shooting cap is ok but a single RBT having the same penalty as a peg riding dreadlord is obviously not right. Also, why give the same penalty for pegasus, dark steed and cold one mount? They are all very different.

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Demons of Chaos

Again, each greater daemon is 1 choice. They are all very different and shouldn't carry the same penalty. Also unit of 3 drones is not the same as a unit of 5 drones. Playing against 10 beasts of nurgle and a skillcannon... DoC were one of the most under comped army, no need to lower the restrictions for them! Only reason players took so much flies is because beasts were comped...

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High Elves

Well, it is legal to have an lvl4 death with the book, lion star with the banner, 2 forties (or even 3 with the annointed)? HE comp is completly lifted, everything is available to them. This comp is all wrong.
I'll quote last years since it has taken the most effort from Ar.com to get it right, and HE performance at the ETC confirms they did a great job.
Citat:
• Book of Hoeth/Banner of the World Dragon/Unmounted Frostheart Phoenix, max 2
• Frostheart Phoenix/Star Dragon/Moon Dragon, max 2
• Archmage with Lore of Shadow or Death cannot use Book of Hoeth
• Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower/Each 8 (or fraction) Shadow Warrior or Sister of Averlon models/Archer units, max 7
• Ellyrian Reaver units, max 3

Having a thing like
Citat:
60 or more shots in the army - 1 choice
is bad publicity. No HE player would ever bring such an army, and comping it only lessens the overall document since having such pointless lines can only leave the reader questioning your work.

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Lizardmen

They are the only race to have
Citat:
Each flying unit after the second – 1 choice
but their fliers are nowhere near as good as of other races.

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Orcs and Goblins
Army size is increased to 2500 points

This is the biggest cause of concern for me.
Comp feedback was that army lists are too boring. Everyone agreed about that. OnG were the worst offenders!
Some wise person suggested to take all the OnG and make them play against other OnG in a seperate tournament.
So leaving the OnG to their savages, war machines and corner play is just wrong. You said you would fix this, please do your job!

Citat:
Ogres

Again, 1 saber tusk cannot have the same penalty as an ironblaster. Maybe 3 can but not 1.
Comp is also lifted from them, they can take everything if they only have 1 blaster. You did mention the Hellheart (rightly so), it should carry more penalty if a scroll is in the army.

Citat:
Skaven

Get a lot of boosts too. The thing with Skaven, they have a lot of toys. The most of all armies. And you let them have them all, that can't be right. 2 seers (one with powerscroll, other with bell), 2 cannons, rocket, orb, banner, unlimited gutter runners... way too much.

Citat:
Tom[b]b Kings
Army does not crumble upon the death of the Heirophant

It's cool that you changed that rule. They should also get to march then, just like the VC (within 12'' of the general). That would make them right in all sorts of ways.

Citat:
Vampire Counts

They have only sceamer build restricted. They can field 2-3 blenders and still not fill the 5 choice allowence! Feel free to lower it to 3, noone will notice.

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Warriors of Chaos

Since you are lowering the bar for all the armies, how come Nurgle prince is comped into oblivion? Is he the best model in warhammer to deserve that?

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Wood Elves

Way too much comp for a glass hammer army, in a field with soo little comp.


So, my overall impression is that you made a quick comp, not considered all the fine details, forgot an item here, unit there, overcomped some, undercomed others, had 'collateral victims' (characters/ units getting comp but not deserving it, just becaues some simmilar character/ unit does deserve it). External balance suffers from it. And did very littel to improve the internal balance!
For exapmle, yhy would a HE take not take 2 frosties, book on lvl4 and the banner? Ok, they might take 2 dragons but that is about it since you killed the cav build.


Zadnja izmjena: Razon, dana/u sri, stu 19.11.2014 • 11:26 am, ukupno mijenjano 2 puta.

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PostPostano: sri, stu 19.11.2014 • 10:56 am 
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Pridružen/a: čet, lip 05.06.2003 • 4:32 pm
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U potpunosti se slažem s tobom.

Prva stvar koja mi je pala na pamet je bilo.

Stardragon, WL horda s bannerom, L4 knjiga, 2 Frosta, riveri...

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PostPostano: sri, stu 19.11.2014 • 11:11 am 
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UMS "Agram"

Pridružen/a: ned, vel 27.02.2005 • 10:13 pm
Postovi: 4943
Lokacija: Zagreb
Ps. We hope that the removal of 50% points for units under 25% or fleeing at the end of the game was an accident!

Edit:
Whole comp is written in the form:
Max 5 choices;
- A = 1 choice
- B = 1 choice...

Last year it was:
A, B, ... Max 2 choices
C, D, ... Max 3 choices

So, it is the same tihng? Well, almost the same, last year was much more precise. This year we have change, less accurate wording, and lines from last year were largly ignored. Surely not all of them were 'bad' and this year you could use some of them in the for as they were? You really don't have to go out of your way to make changes; we get a worse off comp because of it.

Edit2:
Beastmen and TKs get +300 pts but don't get -10% on points given? Why the nerf?


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PostPostano: sri, stu 19.11.2014 • 8:25 pm 
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Pridružen/a: pon, svi 26.05.2003 • 7:42 pm
Postovi: 1105
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+1 na sve!

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PostPostano: sub, pro 13.12.2014 • 5:23 pm 
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Pridružen/a: čet, lip 05.06.2003 • 4:32 pm
Postovi: 3757
Lokacija: Na kamenu tvrdom...
Došao je Draft 1.

Vedrane ako nešto ne promjene Beastmeni su mega vojska.

Nurgle Beastlord s GW-om 2+/4++
Nurgle Great Bray Shaman s Ws10 5++ Shadow/Death
Nurgle Wargor s 2+ i Beastbannerom
Bray Shaman Beast
Bray Shaman Beast

I onda možemo počet slagati ostatak liste

Ako baš želim mogu uzeti i Tzeentch Doombulla i onda krenut slagat vojsku.

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